Models instead of 2D meters

[callisto2002]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about using real models for the GS meters, instead of just composing 2D graphics. The idea is that a model would provide you with greater flexibility. However, my experience using models is limited.

I figured that I would allow people to use an animated model and play certain "animations" of that model in response to game events. For example, if the multiplier increased to "2x" then I would play the animation "multiplier2x" on the model and that has to make the model display the right multiplier.

Therefore, for beginners I'd like to have a rock/score meter model with an animation for each multiplier that just consists of a single frame (i.e. the meter showing the right multiplier value).

My questions are:
1. Does anyone have experience with animating models like
that?
2. Would it work like this or does anyone see a reason it wouldn't?
3. How does GZ do it?
4. Can someone supply an appropriate test model in .x or .fbx format?

Thanks,
Callisto

[hulkhaugen]

that sounds great. i don't have a clue how it works though, but sounds correct. talk to skizot, he has made som fancy meters for gz. bit will it be models only, or a choice, like in the xml or something?

[xorange90x]

from what i see, in the original GZ there are files "scoremeter.png" and "rockmeter.png" that display in game by them selves, then i believe another image such as the "digitsalpha.png" is placed behind it, but displaying the proper digits i assume. just like the main menu consists of two backdrops and then the menu text.

but i like ur idea, that would give the ability to allow lighting and flares on the meters, wouldn't it?

[JD2504]

OMG! no plz... making the meters 3d instead 2d will make the meters unmodable for most of us or could be possible an option to select betwen 2d and 3d meters?

[bob78h]

Yeah the option to choose between the two would be better.

[cool29801]

Modeling, you got me for that, hit me up on xfire.

Making 2d/3d changable option would be difficult as compared to going with 3d and making a small textured plane. Its pretty much 2d ya know?

[flipsk8r1409]

yep i could do it too but callisto why dont you just have us use child objects/limbs and you can texture those individually like in the original gz

[crazy.neo]

flipsk8r1409 said:

yep i could do it too but callisto why dont you just have us use child objects/limbs

There are kids reading this, you pervert!

[bob78h]

cool29801 said:

Modeling, you got me for that, hit me up on xfire.
quote]
But you're not on xfire that much anymore...

[skizot]

i'm always on msn, and even have 3-4 different sets of meters waiting for him.

[dreakon]

Not a HUGE fan of this idea, considering one of my favorite things about the beta has been its incredible performance and loading times. Plus I'm no good at modeling (not that I'm great at 2d stuff or anything, but at least I have Photoshop), which may be a problem for more than just myself.

Completely up to you though callisto. Anything you put out I'm sure I'll end up loving anyways.

[skizot]

here's the deal.

you have two options.

1. 3d models : you have complete meter editing capabilities.

or

2. 2d sprites : you have whatever callisto gives you and you have to mod AROUND it.

[reverend]

I don't think #2 would be problem if there was a little more item placement control.

I think #1 creates a lot more work for modders, though. It's much easier (for the average person) to create a 2d image than a textured 3d model for the same item result. Ideally, this will be optional.

[skizot]

well the average person wouldn't mod, they'd just play.

[skizot]

these for instance. 3d models. would rock. though i porbably could do something a bit more with the multiplier lights.

[hulkhaugen]

hey, nice work skizot. the score is maby a bit small tough, but it still look very cool in a sketchy way.

[skizot]

well like i said... not exactly DONE.... but just a PoC

[dreakon]

skizot said:

these for instance. 3d models. would rock. though i porbably could do something a bit more with the multiplier lights.

Those look great, don't get me wrong, but why wouldn't they work as 2D textures?

[bob78h]

I think because with 3d models we can set the meters at any angle...

[dreakon]

bob78 said:

I think because with 3d models we can set the meters at any angle...

Allowing custom meter angles just seems easier then completely reworking them for 3D models. But then again, I'm not programming the game so hell if I know whats easy and what isn't.

Now that I think about it, I am kind of coming around to the idea. It'll be harder to make the meters, but once they're made and all the animations are done, it'll be a lot easier to actually get into the game. Though I still believe switching to them will limit this community to maybe 3 people willing and able to make quality meters. Maybe that's all we need.

I just hope the switch won't cause any significant performance hits. Like I said, one of the things I like about this game so much is how well it runs.

[callisto2002]

Hey everyone,

I don't think most of the commenters here grasped the core of the idea/question.

It's not actually about the meters being 3D(!) models, but rather about them being models(!) at all. The model can still be a single textured plane.

Most model formats (incl. the .x format) can store model animations. The question is: Say I'm "playing" an animation "turn_on_multiplier_4x" on the model, would it be possible to show the 4x multiplier on the model in response?

Skizot? Cool?

Bye,
Callisto

[bob78h]

Ahh I get it. So you're trying to see if the meters can have animations like when you hit a note streak and the multiplier thingy rolls...

[skizot]

actually callisto... it's ALOT easier than you are making it.

hit me up on MSN ( AND STAY AROUND THIS TIME)

and i'll explain it to you. hopefully we can figure something out.

[fatdog]

are you just talking about animated materials? change the material on a frame by frame basis, so frames 1 - 10 material 1 will be visible, frames 11 - 20 material 2 will be visible, this type of thing can be done but im not sure what export formats retain this information, im not familiar with what the x format can handle

but wouldn't this type of thing just as easily be controlled by an xml to define some materials and frame ranges, and that way keep things easily editable for the non3d modders

[skizot]

look. i WILL MAKE A 2D MODEL THAT USES THE SAME CURRENT SKINS. just calm down and let those of use WHO do know how to model use our skills. you don't think you're gonna get 3d animated stages from 2d artist do you? I see this as a start for callisto to start adding in the 3d stuff for backgrounds etc.

[fatdog]

if that post was a response to mine i don't think u got what i was saying

im trying to clarify what the question is behind this thread and if it is what i think it is, personally i believe material / texture control would be better off independent of the 3d model format, this is pretty common practice for games and in no way holds back the 3d element of the game progressing

if you have the idea that im suggesting ideas that may limit your wonderfull skills this is just not the case, carry on and god bless you son

[skizot]

this is the default meters... nothing showing but the basics.

using textures (like callisto already does) we get this:

[skizot]

hey look, your loveable old 2d meters... IN 3D!!!!!

[flipsk8r1409]

thank you skizot for explaining that to them cause all the meters now are is 3d planes texured with a 2d image