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Post by callisto2002 on Sept 2, 2008 15:57:08 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
does anyone know how those drum freestyle sections (i.e. the ones you use to activate SP on RB) can be extracted from the Rock Band mids?
Bye,
Callisto
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 2, 2008 16:14:44 GMT -5
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Post by canped on Sept 2, 2008 16:31:37 GMT -5
I think I get it. Upload me a mid and I'll work it out ASAP
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 2, 2008 17:08:29 GMT -5
ok, here: www.mediafire.com/?2vfwpuptjgfit's Nirvana - In Bloom in case you want to double check anything with youtube i included the original rb mid (notesRB.mid) and iancer's conversion because i'm not sure if he messed with that part of the mid or not (probably not). |
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Post by iancer on Sept 2, 2008 17:29:13 GMT -5
yo whaddup guys, i specifically did not mess with anything in the drum section, as far as free fill notes go...the actual SP phrases for drums are 'touched' by my converter though...moving them to GZ compatibile notes...
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Post by canped on Sept 2, 2008 18:29:47 GMT -5
OK, I think that a block of notes on C8- E8 denotes a freeform section. i.e. if there's long sustained notes across C8, C#8, D8, D#8 and E8 then the section becomes freeform.
Also, this doesn't seem to match up with what the scorehero guys worked out as the midi layout for rockband; the way I can see it's
Track 1; empty... possible header for the file/non-midi info
Track 2; Guitar
Track 3; Bass
Track 4; Drums
Track 5; I would guess this must be animations
Track 6; labeled 'END' but contains no midi info
Track 7; labeled 'Lighting [silhouettes]' So I guess its more visual triggers
Track 8; Some kind of metronome (1 stong beat, 3 weak the whole way through in time with song)
So... I dunno, but if you put sustained notes on the 8th octave, it should become a freefill section. That's what it looks like, anyway.
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 2, 2008 18:40:56 GMT -5
OK, I think that a block of notes on C8- E8 denotes a freeform section. i.e. if there's long sustained notes across C8, C#8, D8, D#8 and E8 then the section becomes freeform can't be. that section is for the expert notes. if you have a sustained note (which i don't even see one) then that would mean you HAVE to have starpower ready because there wouldn't be any notes for it to follow, only the fill. EDIT: but there is a lot of stuff under all the notes. somewhere in there i'm sure is where fills are located |
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Post by canped on Sept 2, 2008 18:51:32 GMT -5
C6 is expert, not C8 (hang on, some sequencers do this differently, it might actually be C10 by other software).
Look- I've never played rockband or even seen it being played- what exactly is a free-fill section? I'll look up youtube and someone write a brief so I know what I'm looking for.
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 2, 2008 19:01:28 GMT -5
oh yea, it does start at c10 for me (i'm using fl studio). idk, that might be it. best bet is to time when one appears in a youtube video i guess and check the mid  anyways, i can explain how it works. once you get get two overdrive path (rockband's starpower) you keep playing and every once in awhile a drum fill will come up. once you hit whatever 4-5 notes you want, the last note in the fill will appear (green for right handed people and red for left handed people) once you hit that last note in the fill, you'll go into overdrive and get double multiplier as usual. |
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Post by CJB100 on Sept 2, 2008 19:01:41 GMT -5
free fill's allow the drummer to play whatever he/she wants. after hitting the drums 3 times, the player can hit a green note at the end of the free-fill lanes, which activates star power.
EDIT:: ninja'd X P
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Post by canped on Sept 2, 2008 19:10:52 GMT -5
Right; so why is there fretted notes underneath those sections where the rest of the fretting for the drums is?
Do those sections appear if you DON'T get 2 overdrive paths? If you don't have them, the song continues as normal, is that right? And the BIG ENDING thing, is that the same, you need the OD to play it, or does it happen anyway?
Either way, I'm positive those blocks on C8/10 are the fill sections.
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Post by GZ Guy on Sept 2, 2008 19:19:13 GMT -5
if you have starpower/overdrive then the free hand sections appear, if you do not have power or it is currently activated the song keeps going with the section appearing, the big rock ending it just go crazy and try to add up as many points as possable and then hit the notes after to get those points, you dont need starpower/overdrive to play the big rock finish, if there is one it will always be there.
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Post by CJB100 on Sept 2, 2008 19:20:06 GMT -5
you need overdrive to play it during the songs, if not it continues as normal you are correct.
the big rock endings just always happen tho. they might be on yet another midi section...? maybe?
EDIT:: ninja'd X P
dammit. lol
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Post by canped on Sept 2, 2008 19:25:05 GMT -5
OK, the scorehero guys seem to think that the big rock finish part is due to the length of the notes sutained on C10-E10. I don't think so, I think there must be another trigger in the file somewhere. Can I get a song with a big rock ending to see if I can suss it out?
EDIT: I need to get up for a big meeting with clever musicy people in a few hours, so I might not report back until tomorrow.
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 2, 2008 19:32:12 GMT -5
he's OK Go - Here it goes again. it has about a 10 second big finish in it: www.mediafire.com/?qakaa4lvdjai haven't looked at it yet, but hopefully it'll get us a little closer EDIT: yea, i think you were right all along, lmao. but like that scorehero guy said, what's the difference between a fill and a big ending? |
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Post by CJB100 on Sept 2, 2008 19:43:14 GMT -5
big ending you get points, and there is no green cymbal at the end. with fills, the opposite is true.
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 2, 2008 21:21:47 GMT -5
lmao, no, that's not what i ment
i ment how does the game tell if it's a big finish or just a fill when they are read the same way. but to answer my question, i think it's because there isn't any notes during the big finish like the rest of the normal fills. so the game just forces the big finish and knows it as such.
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Post by canped on Sept 3, 2008 1:50:37 GMT -5
There's no difference between them except the length in the MIDI, it seems. We could test it... can you import custom songs into Rock Band? See if you can force a big ending in the middle of a song?
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Post by callisto2002 on Sept 3, 2008 2:16:35 GMT -5
iancerI'd like to support rockband mids natively. Questions: 1. Does FoF support RB mids natively? How do they tell whether it's a RB or GH mid? 2. Regarding that "converter" - is there any way to tell whether a file has been touched by your converter. My "game logic" would be to check whether the file has a TRACK_DRUMS - if yes, it's a RB file, otherwise it's GH.
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Post by canped on Sept 3, 2008 2:21:20 GMT -5
The track I got had a renamed header and seemed identical other than that. Regarding the MIDI layout, its identical to GH (easy-expert fretting placement) so native support should work anyway but I guess iancer could answer this by telling us exactly what his converter does...
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 3, 2008 9:52:28 GMT -5
rockband's overdrive paths is all made out of one line in the mid, so all difficulties have the same paths. gh's starpower had 4 different parts of the mid that contained starpower for easy/med/hard/expert which is how gz2 reads it.
all iancer's converter did was just move that one line in the rb mids and copy pasted it 4 times where gz2 reads starpower.
callisto, to answer you questions.
1. they support it as much as we support it really. they have drums and the lyrics at the top but don't support the starpower (ex. random starpower, unless that changed recently)
2. that would be a question of iancer. honesly, if you made starpower support for rockband's native mids, there wouldn't be any need for iancer's conversions anyways.
since all my rb songs have been converted, you could just check to folder for a notesRB.mid, and if it's there, use that as a rb mid. if not, check notes.mid and run that as a gh.
that would suggest you needed to convert or rename all your mids though :/
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Post by darthslaw on Sept 3, 2008 10:41:40 GMT -5
Why not make the game decide which scheme to use based on what type of star power paths are there, if everything else is functionally the same?
I.e.
if RB star power notes present, follow RB scheme
else follow GH scheme
(Like deciding how to set up solo sections)
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Post by callisto2002 on Sept 3, 2008 10:43:34 GMT -5
moonflow43Thanks for the wrap-up. From the looks of it, I will just treat the OD demarcation note as the beginning of a starpower section and everything's fine! Thanks a lot!
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 3, 2008 11:06:48 GMT -5
Why not make the game decide which scheme to use based on what type of star power paths are there, if everything else is functionally the same? I.e. if RB star power notes present, follow RB scheme else follow GH scheme (Like deciding how to set up solo sections) right but native rockband mids do actually use the gh starpower spot, i believe it was for solo's. i remember playing rb mids on gz2 before iancer's converter and having one big starpower path during the whole solo :/ |
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Post by iamdaddy on Sept 3, 2008 11:56:12 GMT -5
Surely darthslaws idea would work? Its not checking if there is any notes on the GH sp setting. Its checking for notes in the RB defined mid sections. So effectively a RB official mid would have both and customs/GH songs would just have the one.
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Post by moonflow43 on Sept 3, 2008 12:22:19 GMT -5
oh wait yea, i think your right. darthslaw did have the right idea
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Post by canped on Sept 3, 2008 13:27:31 GMT -5
The OD midi note doesn't just denote the start of a starpower section but also its length- the note is sustained for the length of the combo.
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